Draft constitution passed by Islamists sparks protests

The assembly passes all 234 articles of a new draft constitution Egyptians will vote on the document in two weeks Human Rights Watch says the constitution is missing key rights protections Thousands protest in Cairo's Tahrir Square

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Cairo (CNN) -- Whether a draft constitution approved by an assembly will move Egypt toward being a freer and more open society is still in question, experts say.

The assembly early Friday approved dozens of amendments as delegates worked through the night to cobble together the draft. Citizens will vote in two weeks to determine the constitution's future.

The outcome of the vote will set the tone for the future of one of the most important countries in a region that is quaking amid the conflict in Syria, violence still smoldering in Iraq and a continuing volatile standoff between Israelis and Palestinians.

It will also be a reflection of President Mohamed Morsy's government, experts say. Morsy was voted into office after the popular uprising in 2011 that toppled President Hosni Mubarak. Some have said Morsy's push for a new constitution is a power grab that echoes Egypt's past.

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Morsy's Muslim Brotherhood party pushed through the 234-article draft in just 21 hours from Thursday into Friday. Frustrated Coptic Christians and liberals earlier had walked out, complaining their views were not getting enough consideration.

Members voted on each article separately, discussed objections by dissenters and made alterations.

Business owner Shahira Kamel, who joined thousands of protesters in Tahrir Square, was upset with the draft.

"This is not the right constitution for our country," Kamel said. "I'm not going to change myself or my life. I have all the freedom in the world."

Opinion: Don't blame Muslim Brotherhood for Morsy power grab

A quick glimpse at the articles show that the language deals with individuals' civil rights, particularly how security forces and the justice system treats them. There's wording that prohibits arbitrary arrest and detention and ensures due process, a sensitive topic in Egypt. Mubarak and his loyalists are blamed for jailing and harshly mistreating innocents in the years before and especially during last year's uprising.

Anyone jailed cannot be interrogated without an attorney present, and if detainees don't have one, the judicial system must appoint one, one article stipulates, and phone conversations, electronic correspondence and other communication cannot be tapped without a warrant.

Friday morning, the assembly's head, Hossam al-Ghiriyani, asked if everyone agreed to the 234 articles. After a show of hands, he said, "Agreement by consensus. May God bless you." The room broke into applause, and everyone stood while the national anthem played.

Protesters to Morsy: Roll back your decree or leave

While the articles sound democratic, the fine print indicates otherwise, some independent rights experts say.

"Moving a flawed and contradictory draft to a vote is not the right way to guarantee fundamental rights or to promote respect for the rule of law," said Joe Stork, deputy Middle East and North Africa director at Human Rights Watch.

He told CNN on Friday that key rights are ignored in the draft.

"It guarantees 'freedom of expression,' but you cannot insult the Prophet. You cannot defame the Prophet," Stork said.

While it might be all right for such action to be considered a civil offense, it should not be "a criminal one as this document suggests," he said.

The draft addresses freedom of religion, Stork notes, "but you have to be a Christian, Jew (or) Muslim."

It doesn't address the Baha'is, he said, a group that has been persecuted in various countries for their faith.

Opinion: A new Egypt must learn political compromise

Other observers were more optimistic.

"The draft constitution will end the state of political division, because it will cancel the constitutional decrees that the president issued," said Dawood Basil, a Cairo University constitutional law expert. "I feel overwhelming joy after hearing the final wording of the articles."

Gehad El-Haddad, senior adviser to the Muslim Brotherhood, said the constitution, while vague in some places, largely received strong support in the assembly.

"At the end of the day, this constitution has a fairly strong representation of the Egyptian society," he told CNN.

Some critics argue the constitution could move Egypt closer to Sharia law. Mohamed Naeem, a member of the Eyptian Social Democratic Party, said it opens the way for a theocracy.

A 1971 constitution in place under Mubarak was "more open and protective of individual rights," said Mustapha Kamel Sayed, a professor of political science at Cairo University.

The preamble includes language pertaining to women, stating that they are equal to men but also accentuating their role as mothers.

The constitution says: "There is no dignity for a nation which does not honor women; women and men are equal, for they are the fort of motherhood, half of the society and partners in all the gains and national responsibilities."

Citing the family as "the foundation of society," the document guarantees free maternal health care and promises to reconcile "a woman's duties toward her family" and her job.

But Heba Morayef, the Egypt director for Human Rights Watch, argued that the language regarding women is too vague. She worries that the mention of women's family role will trump other freedoms.

The United Nations' high commissioner for human rights, Navi Pillay, urged Morsy to reconsider the draft, saying a number of measures contained in it are incompatible with international human rights law. She called them "not yet sufficient."

Many people in Egypt doubt the draft will bring them the freedoms they fought so hard for last year.

Tens of thousands of protesters Friday packed Tahrir Square, the epicenter of 2011's revolution. They prayed and listened to a cleric call Morsy a "pharaoh." Women in the crowd spoke of their concerns.

Businesswoman Faten Khalil said people don't trust the government and want Morsy to step down.

"They use religion to push us to do whatever they want but they are not really religious," she said.

Another Tahrir protester, designer Basna Azmi, criticized the Muslim Brotherhood, saying it is more an international organization than an Egyptian one.

Demonstrations have become violent at times, and protesters pitched a tent city at a traffic roundabout. Food vendors have set up stands in the middle of the street and protest leaders have walked across a sound stage leading chants.

Opposition factions have called for another mass demonstration in Tahrir Square starting near daybreak Saturday.

The Muslim Brotherhood has called for its own demonstration outside Cairo University on Saturday, in what would be the biggest public show of support for Morsy.

Suspect kills self after deadly classroom attack

3 are dead at two separate, but related crime scenes, according to police They were killed by "a sharp-edged weapon," though authorities did not elaborate The suspect "appeared to be completely alone," Casper's police chief says "This is the worst day of my career," the Casper College president says

(CNN) -- A man fatally injured one person, then burst into a Wyoming college class Friday morning to kill another person and, ultimately, himself, police said.

According to Casper police, "there were no firearms involved in the crime(s), and the (victims') injuries were caused by a sharp-edged weapon." It was not immediately clear how the three people -- one of whom was a Casper College faculty member -- were killed.

"I've been a college administrator for about 40 years, (and) I can say without a doubt this is the worst day of my career," said college President Walter Nolte.

Police Chief Chris Walsh did not immediately identify the three dead but said one was a woman and two were men, including the suspect. All of them knew each other, he added.

Authorities got their first call shortly after 9 a.m. MT (11 a.m. ET) about "a traumatic injury on the campus of Casper College." About 33 law enforcement officers from various agencies arrived within minutes, according to Walsh.

Casper College subsequently went on lockdown, as did the Natrona County Schools, as authorities tried to ascertain what happened.

As they canvassed the Wold Physical Science Center building, officers found two dead bodies in a third-floor classroom, the police chief said.

Meanwhile, two minutes after that first call, police learned of another "traumatic injury" at a site off-campus. Police are working under the assumption that this death is related to the other two and that the man behind all the violence is dead.

"There is no one at large, and there's no threat of violence or anything like that," Walsh told reporters early Friday afternoon.

The police chief said the suspect was not a current Casper College student, although he didn't elaborate or explain how the three dead knew each other. Walsh did say "the suspect appeared to be completely alone."

Obama warns of 'Scrooge' Christmas without tax-cut deal

NEW: No talks between White House and congressional leaders are set, an official says President Barack Obama urges quick deal on tax-cut extension for most Americans Republicans are balking at Obama's first proposal, including $1.6 trillion in revenue increases Nancy Pelosi predicts 100% of House would back a "middle-class" tax cut

Hatfield, Pennsylvania (CNN) -- After touring a Pennsylvania toy factory that's churning out would-be holiday gifts, President Barack Obama warned Friday of a "Scrooge" Christmas if Congress does not pass legislation extending tax cuts for 98% of Americans.

The visit and speech were part of Obama's campaign-like push to curry public support for his plan to avert the so-called fiscal cliff and the automatic tax increases and spending cuts that would come with it.

"Let's get that done," Obama said of approving tax cuts for most Americans, while letting rates for the top 2% go up. "Let's go ahead and take the fear out for the vast majority of American families so they don't have to worry about $2,000 coming out of their pockets next year."

In Washington, House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, raised alarms about an impasse a month before the fiscal cliff would set in, to the detriment of the nation's fragile economic recovery, many economists warn.

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"There's a stalemate. Let's not kid ourselves," Boehner said.

As of early Friday evening, no talks were planned between the White House and congressional leadership to avert what could happen in January, an official familiar with the situation said.

With little evidence of a breakthrough, Obama has tried to amp up pressure on Republicans by making his pitch public. The Rodon Manufacturing Group plant in Hatfield that he visited makes K'Nex toys, which Obama jokingly offered to members of Congress who make his "nice" list.

Not on that list are many House Republicans.

How to raise taxes on the rich

The Democratic-controlled Senate has already passed legislation calling for the extension of tax cuts for all but the most wealthy Americans, but the matter has not come up for a vote in the House.

Republicans who control that chamber, many of whom oppose any tax rate increases, have insisted the tax-cut extensions apply to all Americans and balked at considering separately the tax cut that applies to 98% of Americans. Obama says House Republicans are holding "hostage" something that would help the vast majority of the country to protect the wealthy few.

"That doesn't make sense," the president said, urging Americans to flood House Republicans with calls, letters and social networking messages.

Addressing the tax-cut extension for lower- and middle-class families is the most urgent "ticking clock" among the provisions in the "fiscal cliff" package of automatic tax increases and spending cuts that will take effect January 1 if lawmakers and the administration can't reach a compromise, Obama said.

Without the cut, the administration has argued many Americans could pull back on purchasing during the crucial holiday shopping season.

Longer term, analysts and the Congressional Budget Office have said that going and staying over the fiscal cliff -- meaning the tax hikes for all and spending cuts aren't pulled back -- would threaten millions of jobs, especially those dependent on government contracting, and risk a return to recession.

Wall Street and big businesses are lobbying the administration and lawmakers to reach a deal. Investors have been grappling with the uncertainty over the prospect of higher taxes and damaged consumer confidence caused by political gridlock over deficits and the debt.

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House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi said the election and polls show public support for extending the "middle class" tax cut while raising rates for the wealthiest.

She and her caucus are ready to solicit the support of some Republicans in amassing 218 signatures to bring the Senate tax-cut extension bill up for a vote next week.

"I think we would get 100 percent vote on it if it came to the floor," the California Democrat said Friday.

How to bridge the fiscal cliff

The remarks came a day after the Obama administration unveiled details of a comprehensive package, widely rejected by Republicans, to avert the fiscal cliff.

The president's proposal calls for $1.6 trillion in increased revenue, some of it the result of higher tax rates for families making more than $250,000.

Obama also wants to close loopholes, limit deductions, raise the estate tax rate to 2009 levels and increase taxes on capital gains and dividend taxes.

The proposal also calls for additional spending, including a new $50 billion stimulus package, a home mortgage refinancing plan and an extension of unemployment insurance benefits. It would also extend the payroll tax cut passed early in Obama's administration to give taxpayers more money to spend.

In return, multiple sources told CNN that Obama is offering $400 billion in new cuts to Medicare and other entitlement programs. Specifics on cuts would be decided next year, the sources said.

Boehner characterized Obama's proposal for spending cuts as a trifle, calling for "a little, not even $400 billion" in cuts to the $3.8 trillion federal budget.

"It was not a serious proposal," he said.

Republican aides also said the $1.6 trillion in increased revenue was higher than previously discussed. Democrats said the number should not be a surprise, as Obama discussed it during his re-election campaign.

On the campaign trail, the president also repeatedly said the wealthiest Americans should pay more than they do now to help lower the national debt.

10 ways falling off the fiscal cliff could hurt your health

Train cars with toxic cargo fall off New Jersey bridge

NEW: A National Transportation Safety Board official arrives on the scene "There is no environmental emergency," a state official says A toxic chemical from one derailed train car has dissipated, an official says 18 people are treated for possible respiratory issues

For more information on this report, go to CNN affiliates WPVI and KYW.

(CNN) -- A bridge failed in Paulsboro, New Jersey, on Friday, sending four train cars -- at least one leaking a toxic chemical -- crashing into a creek near the Delaware River.

Four of the cars involved in the crash were carrying the chemical -- a highly toxic and flammable substance called vinyl chloride -- which leaked from at least one tank car into Mantua Creek, New Jersey emergency and environmental officials said. A total of seven rail cars derailed.

No serious injuries were reported, but 18 people with respiratory issues were sent to a hospital as a precaution, officials said.

Nearby schools placed students on lockdown, and authorities ordered evacuations in a very limited area around the accident.

At a news conference, a state environmental official indicated that much of the danger had passed, but he warned residents to stay alert for public safety announcements.

"It appears that all of the vinyl chloride that was in the particular car has dissipated," said Larry Hajna of the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection. "There's no more release going on."

Booms have been placed in the creek as a precaution, he said, to contain about 180,000 pounds of chemicals that leaked.

The air surrounding the wreck is being monitored and is safe, the official said. Later, department spokesman Larry Ragonese offered CNN a more definitive assessment, saying, "There is no environmental emergency."

Video of the train wreck site from CNN affiliate WPVI showed two tanker cars dangling from the collapsed railroad bridge. Other cars were in the creek, partially sunken amid rising smoke.

Watch helicopter video of the collapsed bridge and train wreckage

Vinyl chloride is used to make plastic and vinyl products, including PVC pipes, according to the Environmental Protection Agency, which has labeled the chemical a Group A human carcinogen. "Short-term exposure to high levels of vinyl chloride in air has resulted in central nervous system effects, such as dizziness, drowsiness, and headaches," the EPA says on its website.

There's probably going to be one car that's going to be a very delicate move.Paulsboro, New Jersey, spokesman John Burzichelli

The remaining overturned railroad cars "are going to have to be righted," said Paulsboro spokesman John Burzichelli.

Mindful of the two cars dangling from the wrecked bridge, Burzichelli said that "there's probably going to be one car that's going to be a very delicate move."

"It's a time for caution," he said, warning residents to listen for announcements as the emergency is assessed.

Burzichelli described the bridge as "a very old structure" that underwent "a major rebuild" three years ago after some posts had failed.

Three "major trains" go across the bridge each day, he said. Federal safety officials will look at maintenance histories for the track and bridge and conduct standard drug and alcohol testing of the crew.

Deborah Hersman, chairwoman of the National Transportation Safety Board, told reporters near the scene that the freight-only bridge is owned and operated by Conrail. It was too early to determine a cause of the incident, she said.

Other agencies will work to remove the wreckage and get the rest of the material out of the breached tank car. "We will be proceeding with caution," Hersman said.

Related: Residents told to remain aware

A representative for Underwood Memorial Hospital told CNN that the hospital has treated 18 patients with respiratory issues -- mostly sore throats.

A hazardous materials team is on the scene, said Glen Roemmich, Paulsboro-area emergency management coordinator.

Immediately after the wreck, residents told WPVI that they smelled an odor in the area. Authorities warned residents to stay indoors as a precaution and to keep windows closed.

The Coast Guard sent crews to the scene to begin cleanup efforts.

Paulsboro is southwest of Camden, about a 20-minute drive from Philadelphia.

Are you there? Share your stories, videos and images.

Bridge collapse derails train in New Jersey

NEW: A toxic chemical from one derailed train car has dissipated, an official says NEW: Righting one of the overturned cars will be a "delicate move," official says Four train cars with toxic chemicals come off the tracks near the Delaware River 18 people are treated for possible respiratory issues

(CNN) -- A bridge failed in Paulsboro, New Jersey, on Friday, sending several train cars -- at least one leaking a toxic chemical -- crashing into a creek near the Delaware River.

Four of the six cars involved in the crash were carrying the chemical -- a highly toxic and flammable substance called vinyl chloride -- which leaked from at least one tank car into Mantua Creek, New Jersey emergency and environmental officials said. No serious injuries were reported, but 18 people with respiratory issues were sent to a hospital as a precaution, officials said.

Nearby schools placed students on lockdown, and authorities ordered evacuations in a very limited area around the accident.

At a news conference, a state environmental official indicated that much of the danger had passed, but he warned residents to stay alert for public safety announcements.

"It appears that all of the vinyl chloride that was in the particular car has dissipated," said Larry Hajna of the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection. "There's no more release going on."

Booms have been placed in the creek as a precaution, he said, to contain about 180,000 pounds of chemicals that leaked.

The air surrounding the wreck is being monitored and is safe, the official said.

Video of the train wreck site from CNN affiliate WPVI showed two tanker cars dangling from the collapsed railroad bridge. Other cars were in the creek, partially sunken amid rising smoke.

Watch helicopter video of the collapsed bridge and train wreckage

Vinyl chloride is used to make plastic and vinyl products, including PVC pipes, according to the Environmental Protection Agency, which has labeled the chemical a Group A human carcinogen. "Short-term exposure to high levels of vinyl chloride in air has resulted in central nervous system effects, such as dizziness, drowsiness, and headaches," the EPA says on its website.

There's probably going to be one car that's going to be a very delicate move.Paulsboro, New Jersey, spokesman John Burzichell

The remaining overturned railroad cars "are going to have to be righted," said Paulsboro spokesman John Burzichelli. "One car was compromised, but there are three others."

Mindful of the two cars dangling from the wrecked bridge, Burzichelli said that "there's probably going to be one car that's going to be a very delicate move."

"It's a time for caution," he said, warning residents to listen for announcements as the emergency is assessed.

Burzichelli described the bridge as "a very old structure" that underwent "a major rebuild" two years ago. Three "major trains" go across the bridge each day, he said.

Related: Residents told to remain aware

A representative for Underwood Memorial Hospital told CNN that the hospital has treated 18 patients with respiratory issues -- mostly for sore throats.

A hazardous materials team is on the scene, said Glen Roemmich, Paulsboro-area emergency management coordinator.

Immediately after the wreck, residents told WPVI that they smelled an odor in the area. Authorities warned residents to stay indoors as a precaution and to keep windows closed.

The Coast Guard said it was sending crews to the scene begin cleanup efforts.

Also, a team from the National Transportation Safety Board, the nation's top transportation investigator, was on its way to the scene, the agency said.

Paulsboro is southwest of Camden, about a 20-minute drive from Philadelphia.

Kids get medical marijuana

Marijuana has shown anti-cancer activity in many early studies Experts warn that the effects of the drug on child development are unknown Marijuana can be addictive, but addiction rates are often lower than opioids

(TIME.com) -- Like some cancer patients in states where it's allowed, Mykayla Comstock uses cannabis as part of her treatment.

Comstock is 7-years old. Her mother, a long time advocate for medical use of the illegal drug, has been giving her a gram of oral cannabis oil every day. Despite the fact that medical marijuana is legal in Oregon, where Comstock lives, the idea of giving it to a child still gives pause to many adults who associate the drug with recreational use that breaks the law.

As reported by ABC News, Mykayla was diagnosed with acute lymphoblastic leukemia in July. Against her doctor's wishes, her mother, Erin Purchase, began giving her lime-flavored capsules filled with cannabis oil after she had a poor response to her initial chemotherapy treatment.

Her doctors suggested a bone marrow transplant, but while she was taking the medical marijuana, she went into remission in August. She continues to rely on cannabis to ease pain and nausea and her mother plans to continue giving her the drug during the additional two to three years of chemotherapy she still faces.

Purchase believes that certain components in marijuana, which show anti-cancer activity in many early studies, helped spark the remission. Mykayla's current doctor knows she takes the capsules, but doesn't discuss the marijuana as part of her medical therapy.

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Experts like Igor Grant of the University of California's Center for Medical Cannabis Research warn that the effects of the drug on child development are unknown. But the same is true for other medications used to fight pain and nausea that are currently given to children with cancer, as well as for powerful antipsychotic drugs that are used in long term treatment of childhood mental illnesses. Opioid drugs like morphine and Oxycontin, which are sometimes used to treat the severe pain that accompanies life-threatening cancer and other diseases, for example, can cause overdoses.

Although marijuana can be addictive, addiction rates are often lower than those to opioid drugs, and discontinuing opioids is associated with severe physical withdrawal symptoms not seen with marijuana. While opioids can cause nausea and vomiting, marijuana reduces the risk of these symptoms that frequently plague cancer patients as side effects of radiation or chemotherapy.

Advocates like Purchase argue that if opioids are acceptable to treat youngsters' cancer pain, then marijuana should be as well.

TIME.com: How cannabinoids may slow brain aging

The American Academy of Pediatrics, however, disagrees, and opposes the use of marijuana to treat young children, citing its addictive potential and the many unknowns about how it may affect developing bodies. The Institute of Medicine (IOM), a scientific group of experts consulted by Congress, analyzed the available data and since 1999 has acknowledged that certain legitimate medical uses of marijuana are worth additional study.

While the panel noted that many effective treatments already exist to relieve nausea and cancer pain, it recognized that for some patients who may not respond to these therapies, the components in marijuana may be helpful. The group's main objection to the drug was its use in smoked preparations, which is not an issue in this case.

The IOM's report highlights the need for much more research into understanding medicinal uses of marijuana -- including for which symptoms or conditions it might be most effective, and for which patients. Those concerns are magnified when it comes to treating children like Comstock, who often are not included in clinical trials because of their young age, and who may have many more years to contend with any possible side effects of the drug.

Some experts point out that not all of marijuana's components, and their effects on the body, have been studied, not to mention well understood. Without more research, both doctors and parents will continue to face the difficult decision of giving youngsters a compound and hoping it will do more good than harm.

This article was originally published on TIME.com

Is medical marijuana safe for children?

Syria rebels flee with jet fragments

ideo - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

Rebels challenge Assad in skies

Rebels make progress against Syrian air might Still, much of their weaponry is outdated They are producing instructional videos for use of military hardware

Editor's note: CNN's Arwa Damon and crew are some of the few international reporters in Syria, which has been restricting access of foreign journalists and refusing many of them entry. Read more from CNN inside Syria.

(CNN) -- The Soviet-made Mi-8 helicopter turns slowly in the blue autumn sky. It appears to be at an altitude of 3,000-4,000 feet, circling above the province of Aleppo in northwestern Syria. Suddenly, there's a streak of white and then an explosion -- as its engine bursts into flames.

Off camera, there are yelps of joy. It is a rare success for the Free Syrian Army: a precious ground-to-air missile has found its target. Trailing black smoke, the helicopter makes a hard landing. It's not known what happened to the crew.

In the last week, the rebels claim to have shot down one plane and two helicopters in Aleppo province. CNN's Arwa Damon went to the crash site of the plane Wednesday, and saw chunks of metal being carted off by locals.

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At least one of the pilots appears to have been found unconscious by the rebels after ejecting from the plane. Videos uploaded to YouTube appear to show the pilot with a bandaged head wound.

It's a sign that the rebels are beginning to use the weapons they've seized from military bases to good effect, and are gradually beginning to challenge the government's dominance of the skies.

Damon reported Thursday: "The FSA controls vast chunks of territory in Aleppo [province]. In a span of 24 hours they brought down a fighter jet and helicopter and took over a major base" in the province.

Syrian opposition claims to down jet

"What was striking driving through Aleppo, and we were not too far from the city itself, was seeing villages and towns that two months ago one couldn't drive through," Damon reported. "They now have children playing in the streets and shops opening."

"There are some Free Syria Army checkpoints," Damon reported. "This is significant; you see where Assad forces might have been and were but are no longer."

Rebels who recently seized the base of the 46th Regiment some 15 miles (25 kilometers) west of Aleppo told Damon they had captured as many as 300 MANPADs (man-portable air-defense systems), about half of which were in working condition.

There is no way of confirming the number. Videos uploaded after the rebels overran the base showed at least 10 large crates of anti-air missiles, each of which would hold two MANPADs.

Eliot Higgins, who tracks the Syrian conflict through dozens of YouTube channels on his blog Brown Moses, says that when the rebels capture "a couple of dozen [MANPADs] it gets exciting; 100 would be quite amazing"

Rebels also showed off captured tanks and artillery pieces, as well as Chinese-made multiple rocket launchers, seized at the 46th Regiment base.

As rebels appear to gain ground, Internet shuts down in Syria

Free Syrian Army brigades are producing "instructional videos" for handling and arming their newly acquired hardware. One video shows a rebel on a rocky hillside opening a large packing crate, assembling a SA-7. Inside, there are two long olive-green tubes with Cyrillic lettering. Over the next three minutes, the rebel assembles the tube and points it skyward.

It is just one of dozens of anti-air missiles or MANPADs that the rebels are thought to have seized. They are mainly Russian-made SAMs -- some manufactured before the young fighters were born.

Videos uploaded to YouTube and evidence gathered on the ground suggest most of the MANPADs in rebel hands are SA-7s, which the Russians call Strela 2s. It is hardly state-of-the-art, having been developed in the 1960s. There have also been occasional sightings of more advanced SA-16s in rebel hands, which Higgins says has a much better targeting system than the SA-7.

But he notes that often these missile systems lack the all-important grip-stock or battery cooling unit, making them inoperable.

Despite the rebels' gradual acquisition of heavy weaponry, much of it is in poor shape and of a certain age. There is no sign that rebel units have been using more advanced anti-aircraft missiles such as the Stinger.

The Washington Post reported this week that rebels had acquired some 40 shoulder-fired missile systems in recent weeks, and some had been supplied by Qatar. CNN has been unable to confirm that.

But, in October, a diplomatic source told CNN's Senior International Correspondent Nic Robertson that some rebel groups had a few Western-made anti-aircraft missiles under "close control."

Even so, the government retains vast superiority in firepower. And opposition sources say it's using that firepower in ever more indiscriminate ways.

Syrian rebels down jet, take video of bloodied pilot

Higgins notes from the hundreds of videos he has analyzed that "rather than deploying all their most powerful weapons at once the air force appears to have escalated the air war."

He says "L-39s [a Czech-made jet trainer that can also fly combat missions] and OFAB 100-120 bombs [Russian-made fragmentation munitions] appeared after the battle for Aleppo began, and cluster munitions appeared after the Idlib highway was closed."

On Thursday, videos emerged from the city of Aleppo of an airstrike against a neighborhood in rebel hands. They showed the bodies of men, women and children, caked in white dust and blood, being pulled from piles of rubble by frantic rescuers. Above, the top floors of an apartment block have been sheared off, raining lumps of concrete on the street below. Opposition activists estimated at least 15 people were killed.

Other videos uploaded by opposition activists this week show the town of Maarat al Numan, captured by rebels in October, enduring a fourth week of air-raids. The town sits on the main highway linking Damascus with the north, an important artery that is no longer under government control.

Fawaz Gerges, Professor of Middle Eastern politics and international relations at the London School of Economics, tells CNN: "I think the opposition is chipping away at the government's position. I think the opposition strategy is a war of attrition to exhaust the government's forces."

After spending several days among rebel fighters, Damon says that "On the one hand there's a certain sense of anger and frustration with the international community because they feel they have been abandoned. At the same time they haven't lost. They are making major progress and there is a sense of determination and belief that they can do this on their own."

Turkey, NATO scout locations for missile protection from Syria

Analysts react to CNN's Zucker hire

Jeff Zucker to become president of CNN Worldwide, Jim Walton steps down in Dec. Zucker was praised for "Today" show success and criticized for NBC entertainment ratings He vows a commitment to avoid turning CNN into an ideological network He says beating Fox and MSNBC is one of his goals

(CNN) -- Jeff Zucker wants to inject more "passion" into CNN. He wants to help the network "broaden the definition of what news is." And he wants to beat Fox News Channel and MSNBC in the ratings.

In his first remarks after the Thursday announcement that he will become president of CNN Worldwide, Zucker -- one of the country's best-known media executives -- offered those bits of his vision. But he spent more time emphasizing what he won't do: try to turn CNN into an ideological network.

"It's important (CNN) stay true to standards of great journalism," Zucker told reporters on a telephone conference call. But "just because you're not partisan doesn't mean that you can't be exciting.

"We need more passion and more fans -- and that shouldn't be mistaken for partisanship."

Zucker once earned credit for skyrocketing ratings at the "Today" show. He later was blamed for NBC's entertainment programming dropping from first to fourth in the ratings. His stance that CNN can succeed without venturing off of its news mission is in keeping with what CNN leaders have said for years amid well-known and widely diagnosed ratings woes.

When asked to name something new he might do, Zucker declined to be specific.

"Those ideas have to come in due time," he said.

He emphasized that CNN is successful in numerous ways, and should not be judged by the ratings of its U.S. TV network alone. Still, when pressed to give a yes or no answer, he said that beating Fox and MSNBC regularly in the ratings is one of his goals.

Taking questions from the media Thursday was just a taste of what's to come for Zucker.

In assuming the reins of CNN from outgoing president Jim Walton, Zucker steps back into the glare of the media spotlight -- a position he knows well.

His rise through the ranks at a relatively young age in the 1990s led many to label him a "boy wonder."

CNN is looking for a repeat performance.

"Jeff's experience as a news executive is unmatched for its breadth and success," Phil Kent, chairman and CEO of CNN parent company Turner Broadcasting System, said in a statement Thursday. "He built and sustained the number-one brand in morning news, and under his watch NBC's signature news programming set a standard for quality and professionalism. As a programmer, a brand-builder and a leader, he will bring energy and new thinking to CNN."

Zucker said in a statement he's "thrilled to join the distinguished team of journalists across the worldwide platforms of CNN."

"The global reach and scale of the CNN brand is unparalleled in all of news. Outside of my family and the Miami Dolphins, there is nothing I am as passionate about as journalism... I'm excited to return to daily newsgathering and compelling storytelling in a place that values those above all else."

"It's hard to imagine a candidate to lead CNN with a better all-around resume," said Howard Kurtz, host of CNN's "Reliable Sources," which analyzes the media. "The guy has news in his veins, made the 'Today' show a smashing success and ran a major network. His stumbles were mainly on the entertainment side, which isn't what CNN does."

Admiration for Zucker took a big hit over the last decade when he took over NBC's entertainment programming. As NPR put it, he "drove NBC's ratings and reputation off a cliff."

"There's no doubt that I made mistakes in the entertainment world, and I own those," he said Thursday. "But I feel really excited about being able to return to daily news both on television and in digital."

"There's a lot of people in the industry that have a lot of very strong opinions about him -- in both directions," said Robert Thompson, founding director of the Bleier Center for Television and Popular Culture at Syracuse University. "He is kind of a celebrity choice."

Rick Edmonds, media industry analyst for the Poynter Institute, a non-profit school focusing on journalism, told CNN the Zucker hire "makes a lot of sense."

"Moving to a news or news and opinion operation would, I think, play to his strengths," said Edmonds. "And he's a youngish guy with lots of energy. So, why not?"

The 47 year-old married father of four has survived cancer twice -- an experience that, he has said, "prepared me for almost anything."

Thompson, of the Bleier Center, told CNN before Zucker's news conference that he expects "we're probably going to see some of the aesthetics of the primetime shows in the other 24-hour networks be applied to CNN" -- including more opinion talk. Thompson also expects more elements of the kind of entertainment programming that was part of the "Today" show mix, along with hard news.

While Zucker stressed his plans to stick to CNN's fundamentals, Kent -- who joined Zucker on the conference call -- added that the network is looking at expanding programming outside of traditional hard news. "We've had shows about sports, fashion, technology," Kent said. "And some of that is going to be revisited."

In October, as speculation about the possible hire was growing, Los Angeles Times writer Joe Flint argued that "while Zucker easily has the ability to pump new life into CNN, he is such a high-profile executive that his hiring could create more problems than it would solve."

Walton, who announced in July that he would depart at the end of the year, has presided over the company from its headquarters in Atlanta. Zucker will continue to live in New York.

Flint predicted that would mean Zucker spending "half his time on a corporate jet instead of being in the trenches with the team that so desperately needs a leader."

Flint also questioned whether Zucker would see CNN as a stepping stone to a higher position, and be focused on a "next land grab."

Kent said Thursday that Zucker's overseeing CNN from New York will be no obstacle at all, and noted that many CNN/U.S. programs originate from New York.

And Zucker said he looks forward to reporting to Kent.

Andrew Kirell, on the blog Mediaite, said in an October article that while Zucker's coming to CNN would likely stir controversy among his critics, his "failures" at NBC were "far more widely covered than his enormous success in leading NBC's cable assets -- a record which would be directly relevant to the CNN job. On the news side, he can be largely credited with guiding MSNBC out of the gutter and establishing it as an actual competitor to Fox and ultimately beating CNN."

Zucker will supervise the heads of CNN's various divisions, including CNN/U.S., HLN, CNN International and CNN.com.

His entry into the Time Warner corporate family is sure to create a stir for media watchers for another reason -- one that has nothing to do with TV news.

Conan O'Brien has a show on TBS, CNN's corporate cousin. Zucker famously evicted O'Brien from NBC's 11:35 p.m. slot after just seven months hosting the "Tonight Show."

While it could make for an awkward moment at Zucker's welcome party, the O'Brien saga -- which involved removing, then restoring, Jay Leno to the time slot -- also highlights what is at times one of Zucker's strengths: a willingness to think outside the box.

"I do think that taking a risk and trying something new is something that we should always be willing to do," he once told CNBC.

Zucker has a publicly avowed fan in Piers Morgan, who hosts a primetime CNN program. "I love Jeff Zucker. I wouldn't be here without him," Morgan recently told The Hollywood Reporter.

Morgan was under contract with NBC's "America's Got Talent" when he got the CNN offer.

"Everybody had said to him, 'Don't let him go,' and, 'Why do we want to share our talent with CNN?' And he said, 'I get it. This is your dream job, and I'm going to let you do it,'" Morgan said, adding that Zucker is "a very capable executive."

Zucker became executive producer of "Today" at the age of 26, in 1992.

"I worked really hard through a very tumultuous time at the 'Today' show," Zucker said in a talk posted on YouTube this year by IMG Speakers.

"Under his leadership at 'Today,' the program was the nation's most-watched morning news show and the most profitable program on television," says Zucker's official biography on the GE website, from his days at NBC. "Zucker has also served as executive producer of NBC's coverage of several major events, including the 'Decision 2000' election night broadcast, the 1993 and 1997 presidential inaugurations and the Persian Gulf War."

In 2000, Zucker was named president of NBC Entertainment. He then rose through the ranks, becoming president of the network's Entertainment, News & Cable Group and, in 2005, CEO of the NBC Universal Television Group.

As NBC's ratings fell, many critics blamed Zucker, with some chalking it up to his record developing sitcoms.

Still, in 2007, Zucker was again promoted, becoming CEO of NBC Universal.

Zucker left NBC in 2010, after the company merged with Comcast.

He launched Katie Couric's talk show this fall. Entertainment Weekly reported in October that the program was among the new talk shows "leading" in the ratings, but The Hollywood Reporter said "Couric's middling ratings and topics" had "affiliates grumbling."

A Harvard graduate, Zucker showed an interest in journalism during his college years. He was editor of the Crimson, the school's daily newspaper.

O'Brien at the time ran the Lampoon, the school's humor magazine -- and Zucker once had O'Brien arrested over a prank.

"Zucker is one of the most competitive guys you'll ever meet," Fortune writer Patricia Sellers said in 2010.

Zucker will now bring that competitive instinct and willingness to take risks to CNN -- along with lessons learned.

"The challenge Zucker faces is boosting CNN's ratings during those long periods when there's no major breaking story, and creating a more clearly defined brand for the network," said Kurtz. "He certainly has the drive and experience to lead an overhaul as CNN tries to compete with its more ideological cable rivals."

Reid on Boehner: 'I don't understand his brain'

Administration suggests $1.6 trillion in tax increases, Republicans say Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner meets with congressional leaders House Speaker Boehner says President Obama must get serious Sen. Harry Reid says of Boehner: "I don't understand his brain"

Washington (CNN) -- After two years of endless debate and a national election, Democrats and Republicans on Thursday found themselves right where they started -- blaming each other for stagnant negotiations on taxes and government spending.

House Speaker John Boehner declared himself disappointed that "no substantive progress" has occurred in two weeks of talks, saying Republicans were waiting for the White House to propose significant spending cuts.

Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid responded to Boehner by telling reporters: "I don't understand his brain."

The stakes are high this time, as the nation faces an imminent deadline for automatic tax increases and spending cuts -- the looming fiscal cliff at the end of the year that economists fear could cause another recession.

After meeting separately with President Barack Obama's point man on the talks, the top congressional Democrats and Republicans said the failure to move forward was the other side's fault.

Obama "has to get serious," Boehner told reporters following his discussion with Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner. "It's very clear what kind of spending cuts need to occur, but we have no idea what the White House is willing to do."

Senate Democrats said Boehner had it backward because Obama has made his positions clear -- especially his call to extend middle-class tax cuts while allowing rates on the wealthiest 2% of Americans to return to higher rates of the 1990s.

Some specifics of the White House plan became clear later Thursday.

A Republican congressional aide familiar with the proposal said it calls for $1.6 trillion in tax increases.

"All of that upfront -- in exchange for only $400 billion in spending cuts that come later," said the aide, calling the offer "completely unbalanced and unrealistic."

Republican aides said the $1.6 trillion was higher than previously discussed. Democrats said the number should not be a surprise, adding Obama discussed it on the campaign trail.

A senior House GOP aide said Geithner, among other things, proposed an increase in top marginal rates as well as on capital gains and dividends, totaling about $960 billion. Additional tax increases would amount to $600 billion, the aide said. Several senior GOP aides said the White House plan was a step in the wrong direction.

A Democrat familiar with the talks says the administration proposal includes closing loopholes and deductions.

The plan includes $50 billion in stimulus spending and a home mortgage refinancing package, a Republican aide told CNN. Obama would work on $400 billion savings in Medicare and other entitlements next year, without specifying where they'd come from, the aide says.

The White House, after the Geithner meeting, said the president has previously signed $1 trillion in spending cuts into law.

"It's time for Republicans in Washington to join the chorus of other voices -- from the business community to middle class Americans across the country -- who support a balanced approach that asks more from the wealthiest Americans," the White House said in a statement.

Fiscal cliff countdown: Automatic spending cuts

White House spokesman Jay Carney said Obama's insistence on having wealthy Americans pay a higher tax rate was the president's consistent message throughout his first term, and especially during his successful re-election campaign.

"We remain optimistic that this can get done, but the president's principles are clear," Carney said. "It's not like we didn't have this debate for the last year."

Both Republicans and Democrats insist they want a comprehensive agreement to tackle the nation's chronic federal deficits and debt, starting with a deal to avoid automatic tax hikes and spending cuts set to take effect on January 1.

However, the two sides appear far apart on the timing of taking those steps. The dispute over how to proceed is compounded by the lame-duck Congress, which is completing its work before a new legislature gets seated in January.

Obama and Democrats are pushing hard for House Republicans to immediately pass a Senate bill that would prevent most of the automatic tax increases that would result from the expiration of Bush-era tax cuts at the end of the year.

At the same time, they want to discuss a framework for substantive negotiations in the new Congress that would include tax reform, spending cuts and reforms of popular entitlement programs such as Medicare and Medicaid.

Republicans, led by Boehner, oppose letting tax rates on the wealthiest 2% of Americans go up by passing the Senate bill championed by Obama. They also want Democrats to make firm commitments on spending cuts and entitlement reforms now, instead of waiting for negotiations next year.

"I'm disappointed in where we are. I'm disappointed over what's happened in the last couple of weeks," Boehner said of talks since he and other congressional leaders met with Obama on November 16, 10 days after the president's re-election. "But going over the fiscal cliff is serious business. I'm here seriously trying to resolve it, and I hope the White House would get serious as well."

Boehner described his talks with Geithner as "frank" and "direct" and also said he had a "straightforward" telephone call with Obama on Wednesday. His assessment of no real progress was based on both of those discussions, said the Ohio Republican.

"No substantive progress has been made in the talks between the White House and the House over the last two weeks," Boehner said.

Differences between the parties include the scope of a deficit deal, with Republicans insisting that Social Security reforms be part of it while Democrats say the government pension system is self-funded and therefore plays no role in federal deficits.

Cole's compromise plan gets shot down

Obama also wants any deal reached in the current session of Congress to include an increase in the federal debt ceiling, which is expected to be needed as soon as February or March.

To Boehner and Republicans, the debt ceiling is a valuable negotiating tool to extract concessions from the Democrats and the president.

"Any increase in the debt limit has to be accomplished by spending reductions that meet or exceed it," Boehner declared Thursday, saying Obama would have to pay a price to raise the ceiling on federal borrowing.

Carney responded to Boehner's demand of a price by calling such brinksmanship over the credit standing of the nation "entirely inappropriate."

"Asking that a political price be paid in order for Congress to do its job to ensure that the United States of America pays its bill and does not default for the first time in history is deeply irresponsible," Carney said.

A similar battle over the debt ceiling, with threats of a government default on its obligations, led to the unprecedented downgrade of the U.S. credit rating last year by one agency.

Geithner is the Obama administration's point man in the talks. His separate meetings on Thursday with Boehner, House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi, Reid and Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell also included Rob Nabors, Obama's legislative affairs director.

Fresh off his re-election victory on November 6, Obama launched a campaign-style approach this week aimed at pressuring Republicans to pass his tax proposal.

In remarks Wednesday at the White House, Obama urged Americans to call, e-mail and tweet their members of Congress to urge immediate passage of his proposal to extend tax cuts for most Americans while allowing rates on the wealthiest 2% to increase to 1990s levels.

Obama's phone conservation with Boehner later Wednesday lasted 28 minutes, Carney said. A source familiar with the call said the president insisted any deal must include tax rates going up on the wealthiest Americans, a point Carney repeatedly emphasized to reporters Thursday.

Meanwhile, a rift among House Republicans on whether to give Obama what he wants became public Wednesday, with two conservatives saying the tax proposal would likely pass if brought to a vote.

Boehner immediately shot down the call by veteran Rep. Tom Cole of Oklahoma for the chamber to approve the Senate measure, saying he disagrees with his colleague. House GOP aides insisted there is no plan to bring the proposal up for a vote.

However, the public stance by Cole -- which echoed similar statements from conservatives in recent weeks -- as well as his prediction that the Senate proposal would pass in the House showed an increasing desire among House Republicans to move beyond an issue that has harmed them.

Conservative Rep. Tim Scott of South Carolina also said he thinks the Obama tax plan would pass the House, though he made clear to CNN he would oppose it.

Goldman CEO: 'Country can't afford all this'

Obama made clear Wednesday that he hopes public pressure will cause House Republicans to move from their unyielding stance.

"The lesson is that when enough people get involved, we have a pretty good track record of making Congress work," he said.

Cole and some other conservatives say such pressure is the reason to simply give the president what he wants and move past the immediate tax issue.

"If we agree that taxes shouldn't go up on 98% of the people, shouldn't we take that now and get that set aside and make sure they know their taxes aren't going up?" Cole said Wednesday night on CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360."

Sounding a lot like Obama, Cole said that "if we can give assurance to most Americans that their taxes are going to be fine, I think that's helpful to them in planning their lives going forward."

Obama argued Wednesday that settling the tax question for middle-class families would clear the way for the broader agreement everyone wants.

"We can do it in a balanced a fair way, but our first job is to make sure that taxes on middle-class families don't go up," Obama said. "And since we all theoretically agree on that, we should get that done. If we get that done, a lot of the other stuff is going to be a lot easier."

Boehner outlined a similar process on Thursday, but demanded more commitment from Obama and Democrats on spending cuts and entitlement reforms.

His framework includes what he called a "down payment" for the rest of this year that would include spending cuts and additional tax revenue, but not higher tax rates. That would set up negotiations on tax reform and other aspects of deficit reduction next year, Boehner said.

With the U.S. economy showing more signs of improvement in its long recovery from recession, economists point to fears about higher taxes in 2013 as a potential threat to rising consumer confidence.

The impending fiscal cliff resulted from a failure to reach a deficit reduction agreement in the past two years due to long-standing differences between Democrats and Republicans on taxes -- particularly whether to extend tax cuts from President George W. Bush's administration.

Cornyn 'increasingly pessimistic' about deal

Republicans seeking to shrink the size of government oppose allowing any tax rates to return to pre-cut levels, arguing that Obama's plan would hinder job growth because some small business owners who file personal returns would pay higher taxes under it.

Boehner and other influential GOP figures have declared their willingness to consider other ways to boost tax revenue as part of a broader deal that would include entitlement reforms and spending cuts.

Republicans insist Democrats must agree to cut discretionary spending and make significant reforms to Medicare and Social Security as part of a deficit reduction deal.

However, organized labor and other elements of the Democratic base oppose any major reforms to the popular entitlement programs. While some Democratic legislators express willingness to reform Medicare and Medicaid, they reject making Social Security reform part of the fiscal cliff negotiations, saying it is self-funded and therefore doesn't add to the deficit.

New polls this week, including one by CNN/ORC International, showed a solid majority of respondents supports the Democratic stance that any agreement should include a mix of spending cuts and tax increases. An ABC News/Washington Post survey showed a strong majority favoring the Obama tax proposal to raise tax rates on the wealthy.

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U.N. backs upgraded status for Palestinian Authority

NEW: The vote was 138 delegates in favor, nine against and 41 abstentions The resolution elevates their non member status from "observer entity" to "observer state" The United States and Israel remain opposed Several European nations have said they will support the vote

New York (CNN) -- The United Nations General Assembly on Thursday endorsed an upgraded U.N. status for the Palestinian Authority, despite intense opposition from the United States and Israel.

The resolution elevates their status from "non-member observer entity" to "non-member observer state," the same category as the Vatican, which Palestinians hope will provide new leverage in their dealings with Israel.

Its leaders had been working with dozens of supporting nations to develop a formal draft, enlisting the backing of European countries such as France and Spain.

The vote was 138 delegates in favor of the measure, nine against and 41 abstentions, including Germany.

Read more: Palestinian United Nations bid explained

Ramallah celebrates U.N. vote Abbas slams Israel, seeks status upgrade Mideast Focus at U.N. General Assembly

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said the move, which many call symbolic, represents a "last chance to save the two-state solution."

It comes on the heels of an eight-day conflict that raged between Israel and Hamas fighters, where a series of airstrikes and rocket launches drew international attention and threatened regional stability.

"We did not come here seeking to delegitimize a state established years ago, and that is Israel; rather we came to affirm the legitimacy of the state that must now achieve its independence, and that is Palestine," he said.

But Israel's U.N. ambassador Ron Prosor said the move largely ignores the specifics of longstanding issues, such as settlements in disputed lands, and cannot substitute for direct negotiations between Jerusalem and Ramallah.

This resolution "doesn't pursue peace," Prosor said, criticizing Abbas for being unable to represent the Gaza Strip, where a Hamas-controlled government presides.

"It pushes it backwards," he said.

The effort stalled last year when it became apparent that the bid could not get the necessary support in the Security Council. Observer state status does not require Security Council approval, unlike full membership recognition.

The observer status resolution needs only a majority of the U.N.'s 193 members to approve.

Read more: Palestinian move at U.N. won't solve anything

The United States and Israel have remained steadfast in their opposition, saying the move will not advance the cause of Middle East peace.

U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Susan Rice said American leaders could not support a measure that circumvents direct talks and cautioned that Thursday's decision did "not establish Palestine as a state."

Rice urged both sides to the resume direct negotiations without preconditions.

"Israel is prepared to live in peace with the Palestinian state," Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Thursday. "But for peace to endure, Israel's security must be protected, the Palestinians must recognize the Jewish state and they must be prepared to end the conflict with Israel once and for all."

Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev called the resolution "political theater."

Opinion: Why U.S., Israel should welcome Palestinian move at U.N.

But Palestinian leaders have said they had the right to go to the U.N. because Israel failed to comply with agreements signed more than two decades ago.

"It's about a contract. Our contract is that in five years, we should have concluded the treaty of peace and all core issues. This did not happen, and we're talking about 20 years later. And going to the U.N. is not a unilateral step," Palestinian Authority chief negotiator Saeb Erakat said in September.

The last round of negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority was in 2010.

Erakat said the new status would eliminate Israeli justifications for building settlements in the disputed areas of East Jerusalem and the West Bank.

But Israeli officials disagreed.

"No decision by the U.N. can break the 4,000-year-old bond between the people of Israel and the land of Israel," Netanyahu said.

Obama has to get serious, House Speaker says

House Speaker Boehner says President Obama must get serious Sen. Harry Reid says of Boehner: "I don't understand his brain" Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner meets with congressional leaders Discussions focus on avoiding the fiscal cliff and achieving overall deficit reduction

Washington (CNN) -- After two years of endless debate and a national election, Democrats and Republicans on Thursday found themselves right where they started -- blaming each other for stagnant negotiations on taxes and government spending.

House Speaker John Boehner declared himself disappointed that "no substantive progress" has occurred in two weeks of talks, saying Republicans were waiting for the White House to propose significant spending cuts.

Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid responded to Boehner by telling reporters: "I don't understand his brain."

The stakes are high this time, as the nation faces an imminent deadline for automatic tax increases and spending cuts -- the looming fiscal cliff at the end of the year that economists fear could cause another recession.

After meeting separately with President Barack Obama's point man on the talks, the top congressional Democrats and Republicans said the failure to move forward was the other side's fault.

Obama "has to get serious," Boehner told reporters following his discussion with Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner. "It's very clear what kind of spending cuts need to occur, but we have no idea what the White House is willing to do."

Senate Democrats said Boehner had it backward because Obama has made his positions clear -- especially his call to extend middle-class tax cuts while allowing rates on the wealthiest 2% of Americans to return to higher rates of the 1990s.

Now it was up to Republicans to offer a counter-proposal, Sen. Charles Schumer of New York told reporters.

Fiscal cliff countdown: Automatic spending cuts

"They're roiling, and that's why we believe on taxes they will eventually come around to us," Schumer said of GOP negotiators.

At the White House, spokesman Jay Carney said Obama's insistence on having wealthy Americans pay a higher tax rate was the president's consistent message throughout his first term, and especially during his successful re-election campaign.

"We remain optimistic that this can get done, but the president's principles are clear," Carney said. "It's not like we didn't have this debate for the last year."

Both Republicans and Democrats insist they want a comprehensive agreement to tackle the nation's chronic federal deficits and debt, starting with a deal to avoid automatic tax hikes and spending cuts set to take effect on January 1.

However, the two sides appear far apart on the timing of taking those steps. The dispute over how to proceed is compounded by the lame-duck Congress, which is completing its work before a new legislature gets seated in January.

Obama and Democrats are pushing hard for House Republicans to immediately pass a Senate bill that would prevent most of the automatic tax increases that would result from the expiration of Bush-era tax cuts at the end of the year.

At the same time, they want to discuss a framework for substantive negotiations in the new Congress that would include tax reform, spending cuts and reforms of popular entitlement programs such as Medicare and Medicaid.

Republicans led by Boehner oppose letting tax rates on the wealthiest 2% of Americans go up by passing the Senate bill championed by Obama. They also want Democrats to make firm commitments on spending cuts and entitlement reforms now, instead of waiting for negotiations next year.

"I'm disappointed in where we are. I'm disappointed over what's happened in the last couple of weeks," Boehner said of talks since he and other congressional leaders met with Obama on November 16, 10 days after the president's re-election. "But going over the fiscal cliff is serious business. I'm here seriously trying to resolve it, and I hope the White House would get serious as well."

Boehner described his talks with Geithner as "frank" and "direct" and also said he had a "straightforward" telephone call with Obama on Wednesday. His assessment of no real progress was based on both of those discussions, said the Ohio Republican.

"No substantive progress has been made in the talks between the White House and the House over the last two weeks," Boehner said.

Other differences between the parties include the scope of a deficit deal, with Republicans insisting that Social Security reforms be part of it while Democrats say the government pension system is self-funded and therefore plays no role in federal deficits.

Cole's compromise plan gets shot down

Obama also wants any deal reached in the current session of Congress to include an increase in the federal debt ceiling, which is expected to be needed as soon as February or March.

To Boehner and Republicans, the debt ceiling is a valuable negotiating tool to extract concessions from the Democrats and the president.

"Any increase in the debt limit has to be accomplished by spending reductions that meet or exceed it," Boehner declared Thursday, saying Obama would have to pay a price to raise the ceiling on federal borrowing.

Carney responded to Boehner's demand of a price by calling such brinksmanship over the credit standing of the nation "entirely inappropriate."

"Asking that a political price be paid in order for Congress to do its job to ensure that the United States of America pays its bill and does not default for the first time in history is deeply irresponsible," Carney said.

A similar battle over the debt ceiling, with threats of a government default on its obligations, led to the unprecedented downgrade of the U.S. credit rating last year by one agency.

Geithner is the Obama administration's point man in the talks. His separate meetings on Thursday with Boehner, House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi, Reid and Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell also included Rob Nabors, Obama's legislative affairs director.

Fresh off his re-election victory on November 6, Obama launched a campaign-style approach this week aimed at pressuring Republicans to pass his tax proposal.

In remarks Wednesday at the White House, Obama urged Americans to call, e-mail and tweet their members of Congress to urge immediate passage of his proposal to extend tax cuts for most Americans while allowing rates on the wealthiest 2% to increase to 1990s levels.

Obama's phone conservation with Boehner later Wednesday lasted 28 minutes, Carney said. A source familiar with the call said the president insisted any deal must include tax rates going up on the wealthiest Americans, a point Carney repeatedly emphasized to reporters Thursday.

Meanwhile, a rift among House Republicans on whether to give Obama what he wants became public Wednesday, with two conservatives saying the tax proposal would likely pass if brought to a vote.

Boehner immediately shot down the call by veteran Rep. Tom Cole of Oklahoma for the chamber to approve the Senate measure, saying he disagrees with his colleague. House GOP aides insisted there is no plan to bring the proposal up for a vote.

However, the public stance by Cole -- which echoed similar statements from conservatives in recent weeks -- as well as his prediction that the Senate proposal would pass in the House showed an increasing desire among House Republicans to move beyond an issue that has harmed them.

Conservative Rep. Tim Scott of South Carolina also said he thinks the Obama tax plan would pass the House, though he made clear to CNN he would oppose it.

Goldman CEO: 'Country can't afford all this'

Obama made clear Wednesday that he hopes public pressure will cause House Republicans to move from their unyielding stance.

"The lesson is that when enough people get involved, we have a pretty good track record of making Congress work," he said.

Cole and some other conservatives say such pressure is the reason to simply give the president what he wants and move past the immediate tax issue.

"If we agree that taxes shouldn't go up on 98% of the people, shouldn't we take that now and get that set aside and make sure they know their taxes aren't going up?" Cole said Wednesday night on CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360."

Sounding a lot like Obama, Cole said that "if we can give assurance to most Americans that their taxes are going to be fine, I think that's helpful to them in planning their lives going forward."

Fellow Republican Rep. Raul Labrador of Idaho disagreed with Cole, but also said letting Democrats pass a tax increase would saddle them with resulting economic stagnation.

"I think right now my advice to the leadership is that they should let the Democrats pass a tax increase because we will see that the economy will stall because of that tax increase, and then they will own it completely," Labrador said, despite his personal opposition to such a measure.

He and other Republicans complained that Obama and Democrats had yet to put forward any serious proposals to also cut spending and reform entitlement programs

"I think we're making a mistake that we're running around trying to think of ways to deal with the president when the president doesn't want to deal in good faith," Labrador said.

Obama argued Wednesday that settling the tax question for middle-class families would clear the way for the broader agreement everyone wants.

"We can do it in a balanced a fair way, but our first job is to make sure that taxes on middle-class families don't go up," Obama said. "And since we all theoretically agree on that, we should get that done. If we get that done, a lot of the other stuff is going to be a lot easier."

Boehner outlined a similar process on Thursday, but demanded more commitment from Obama and Democrats on spending cuts and entitlement reforms.

His framework includes what he called a "down payment" for the rest of this year that would include spending cuts and additional tax revenue, but not higher tax rates. That would set up negotiations on tax reform and other aspects of deficit reduction next year, Boehner said.

With the U.S. economy showing more signs of improvement in its long recovery from recession, economists point to fears about higher taxes in 2013 as a potential threat to rising consumer confidence.

The impending fiscal cliff resulted from a failure to reach a deficit reduction agreement in the past two years due to long-standing differences between Democrats and Republicans on taxes -- particularly whether to extend tax cuts from President George W. Bush's administration.

Cornyn 'increasingly pessimistic' about deal

Republicans seeking to shrink the size of government oppose allowing any tax rates to return to pre-cut levels, arguing that Obama's plan would hinder job growth because some small business owners who file personal returns would pay higher taxes under it.

Boehner and other influential GOP figures have declared their willingness to consider other ways to boost tax revenue as part of a broader deal that would include entitlement reforms and spending cuts.

That position undermines the no-tax-increase pledge championed by anti-tax crusader Grover Norquist, which Democrats consider to be a major impediment to a deficit reduction deal.

Republicans insist Democrats must agree to cut discretionary spending and make significant reforms to Medicare and Social Security as part of a deficit reduction deal.

However, organized labor and other elements of the Democratic base oppose any major reforms to the popular entitlement programs. While some Democratic legislators express willingness to reform Medicare and Medicaid, they reject making Social Security reform part of the fiscal cliff negotiations, saying it is self-funded and therefore doesn't add to the deficit.

New polls this week, including one by CNN/ORC International, showed a solid majority of respondents supports the Democratic stance that any agreement should include a mix of spending cuts and tax increases. An ABC News/Washington Post survey showed a strong majority favoring the Obama tax proposal to raise tax rates on the wealthy.

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